Attorney Jeffrey Lichtman Talks Kay Flock Murder Charge & Defense, Colombo Boss Andrew Russo, El Chapo Meetings

Attorney Jeffrey Lichtman Talks Kay Flock Murder Charge & Defense, Colombo Boss Andrew Russo, El Chapo Meetings

In Part 2 of Allison Kugel’s interview with famed Criminal Defense Attorney Jeffrey Lichtman, Jeff delves into the details surrounding his client, rapper Kay Flock (real name Kevin Perez), what really happened leading up to Perez shooting and killing the alleged victim, the murder charge, and how he plans to craft Perez’s defense. Kay Flock, 19, is facing life in prison.

Part 2 of this interview also covers Lichtman’s client, Colombo Family Crime Boss, the late Andrew Russo, the ruling that allowed Russo to make bail and die at home, and what happened to Russo leading up to his eventual release from government custody before his death. The second installment of the interview also takes viewers/listeners into the prison where El Chapo was incarcerated, the details of Chapo’s meetings with Lichtman leading up to his trial, and why Lichtman had to beg Chapo not to kill him.

The following are excerpts from Part 2 of the Jeffrey Lichtman interview with Allison Interviews podcast host, Allison Kugel. The full podcast episode is available on Apple PodcastsSpotify, and on YouTube. *If you use any of the following excerpts for a story, please credit Allison Kugel and the Allison Interviews podcast, and either link to, or embed, this episode.

On representing Kay Flock and the real story behind the murder charge:
“His real name is Kevin Perez. He was arrested months ago for a murder that occurred in broad daylight in Upper Manhattan.  He happens to be a very soft spoken [kid], despite his rap music, which is pretty good I have to say. I actually like it.  It’s not my first choice of music, rap music, but he is a really talented kid. He was in an area where somebody saw him.  They were inside a barber shop and somebody walked out to confront him.  It’s all on video.  It’s very clear that he wanted nothing to do with the guy.  He waves him off.  He’s walking with a young woman and as shown in the video the guy is walking towards him in a very aggressive manor.  He puts his hands in his pockets and Kevin is alleged to have seen the guy walking towards him aggressively with his hands in his pocket, and he took his gun out and shot the guy and killed him.  When the guy hits the ground and is found, he’s got a loaded gun in his pocket, that his hand was on at the time. We consider that to be self-defense. It’s a horrific case.”

“The government claims [Kevin] pulled the gun out and shot him.  At the same time, the person that was dead on the ground had his hand on a loaded weapon, an illegal loaded weapon, apparently about to shoot Kevin. I would say to the public, ‘Somebody is walking up to you with a loaded gun and it’s pretty clear he’s going to use it, with a criminal record a mile long. Do you want to get shot, or do you not want to get shot?’ He’s charged with murder. He’s facing life in prison. He’s 19 years old. Just turned 19.”

On why Kay Flock hired Jeffrey Lichtman to represent him in his murder trial:
“I’ve represented a bunch of rappers in the past; The Game, Fat Joe, Jimmy Rosemond who was a producer and a manager.  I have a reputation, nationally, and his managers found me. I was sitting in an airport waiting for a flight home. They contacted me and they wanted me.  They know they are going to get a fight to the death, and that is why they hired me. They are going to get it, I promise you that. That is going to be a trial and it’s going to be a battle.  If somebody is hiring me, they are hiring me because they expect that they may have to go to trial. They are not scared.  When you’re hiring me, you expect a fight.  I very rarely get hired to work out a plea [deal]. The people that I represent are different. They hire me for a reason.”

On representing the government cooperator that put El Chapo in jail, and begging El Chapo not to kill him:
“I had never been concerned about Chapo. I ended up really getting along with him. Chapo and I really hit it off quickly, but there was one major problem. I had to tell him one horrible secret.   I’m thinking, what are the odds that Chapo Guzmán would get extradited to America and he’s ever going to want me to be the lawyer?  I’m thinking, ‘There is a conflict if I’m representing these two cooperators if Chapo ever wants to hire me.’ Guess what?  Two years later I get a call to go visit Chapo in prison.  I’ve got to tell him something that nobody knew, that I was Margarito Flores’ (a member of Chapo’s cartel turned government cooperator) lawyer.  I’m thinking, ‘Maybe he won’t like me, and I won’t even mention it.’ The first visit lasted three hours. We hit it off.  I went to go see him again and we hit it off even more. On the third visit I said, ‘Look, I have to tell you something.’  The government was convinced [Chapo’s] co-conspirators and the former boss would kill the lawyer who represented Margarito Flores, so my name was not allowed to be anywhere. I had to tell Chapo that I am Margarito Flores’ lawyer.  I said, ‘The government was convinced that you would kill me if it came out publicly that I represented him. I have to trust you, that if you decide not to hire me that you are not going to kill me for representing Margarito Flores.’” 

“[Chapo] sat there with his mouth open. I said, ‘If I represent you, I can’t cross-examine the Flores brothers. Someone else will have to do it, but I don’t even know if the government will let me. They may fight to keep me off the case. But I just need you to know that, and I’m trusting you not to kill me.’ I said, ‘I didn’t have to come here.  I didn’t have to take this case. Nobody thinks this is a good idea for me to take your case, but I’m trusting you not to kill me, because the government thinks you’re a killer and that you would kill lawyers.’  He listened and he said, ‘I understand. I respect you for telling me that. You didn’t have to tell me.  I want you as my lawyer. What you’re telling me is that you’re not afraid. I do not want somebody scared.’”

On the government’s treatment of late Colombo crime family boss, Andrew Russo:
“Andrew Russo got out on bail. The other lawyers, when they heard I made the motion [for bail] hadn’t argued yet.  They were laughing at me. These are seasoned Mafia lawyers and they said, ‘You actually think you are getting him out on bail?’ I said, ‘I’m 100% getting him out on bail.’ The next day he was released on bail, because we had such a strong and powerful set of facts that the government couldn’t deny.  He had seriously advanced Dementia and Alzheimer’s. It’s a very rapid decline with this disease. So, the way you are caught on a wiretap in October doesn’t mean you’re the same person the following November.”

“In the assisted living facility they moved him to, it said he’s meeting with nutrition experts and recreation people.  They’re acting as if he’s playing BINGO all day, or finger painting.  The guy was strapped down to a gurney and they have him chained down twenty-four hours a day.  I said, ‘Do you want to be responsible when he is dead in six months because they chained him down? This is America.’  The government said, ‘We don’t think he has Alzheimer’s or Dementia.’ Even the judge said [to the government], ‘Your own doctors said that he had it.’  The judge said, ‘You have this man chained down to a single bed. Do you think that is appropriate?  This trial may not be for another year or two.’”

“We ended up getting him out, but prison really destroyed what was left of him, mentally, and he died in April.  The government wanted him to die in prison.  I wanted him to die amongst his family, and getting him out was not only a shock to everybody, but his family was also so grateful that they could actually spend time with him until the end. He died a free man.  It was horrible for me.  I wanted him to last longer, really more as a ‘Fuck You’ to the government, but he lasted six months. I was proud of the work we did.  We went bonkers on that bail application to get him out.  We denied them their trophy, which was him dying in prison, and to me that was priceless.” 

About Journalist and Podcast Host Allison Kugel
Allison Kugel is a veteran entertainment and pop culture journalist with close to four hundred long form celebrity and newsmaker interviews published and syndicated, worldwide. She is author of the memoir, Journaling Fame: A memoir of a life unhinged and on the record, and host of the Allison Interviews podcast. Watch and embed the entire video interview with Criminal Defense Attorney Jeffrey Lichtman @YouTube. Listen to the audio podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Follow Allison Kugel on Instagram @theallisonkugel and

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